How to Make Everyday Change Easier with Stephanie Weldy

The Question Behind Every Change

Judy Oskam 0:03

You want something to change, but what do you actually do first? Stephanie Weldy is back to help us get specific with examples about friendships, family, and work. Stephanie is a behavior design expert and a certified coach. She works with Dr. BJ Fogg, the author of the New York Times bestselling book, Tiny Habits, the small changes that change everything. In our earlier conversation, we talked about turning ideas into action. This time we're looking at how those actions fit into daily life and how we make them easier to do. Let's

Clarify What You Mean

Judy Oskam 0:42

start with that first step.

Stephanie Weldy 0:44

Especially as like a busy working parent, you know, I feel like again, I practice what I teach. So just know I'm working on these skills myself every day. Yes. So there will be times where I'm like, I want my house, feels like, oh, everything's like exploding, right? And you'll you'll you'll come at it from either solving a problem you have or fulfilling this desire you have. Like, I want to spend more time in real life with my local friends. Great. Whatever that starting point is, the first step is to just clarify exactly what you mean. So when I say my house feels like it's exploding, I'm really saying I feel like the things we have don't have a place to go to be put away. Right. So I'll clarify that for myself. Or I might be like, it feels like the kitchen counter is just constantly getting covered with the next day's things. And then I have to do this massive sweep at the end of the week. So in contrast, if it's like I want to spend more time with my local friends, which I love that one, by the way, that's what I'm gonna use as my example. I will go, okay, so what do I mean by that? I mean I'm not talking about texting, I'm talking about meeting them for coffee, going on a walk with them, intentionally texting them and saying, Do you want to come over on Thursday night of the song after eight for chit chat? You know, I'm talking about in-person connection. And then once I know that, I'm going, okay, what behaviors would help me spend more time with my local friends? And it's the things that I said. I'm probably texting somebody and saying, What day this week is good to go on a walk together? I'm looking at my calendar and going, when can I get a coffee with April? Right. And I'm saying, April, could you get a coffee on Thursday at 2 p.m.? I'm looking at maybe my group chat of people who are chattering but not doing anything. And I'm going, pause, let's have a porch night at my house. Who wants to come over at eight on Friday? Right. So I'm going for what behavior will lead to that thing I want. And sometimes it's a really tiny

Choose A Tiny First Action

Stephanie Weldy 2:47

version of the behavior, Judy. So my habit at the end of my workday, you know, I got these papers here and this notebook here and this folder here. My habit, though, is just to pick up any pen and sometimes it's mascara and to put it away. I'm not sure.

Judy Oskam 3:02

Just one thing, just one little thing. Yeah.

Stephanie Weldy 3:04

It's just the tiniest version.

Judy Oskam 3:06

I need to get back to that habit. I need to get back to that habit.

Stephanie Weldy 3:09

It's a good one.

Judy Oskam 3:10

Yeah, that's a great one. Oh, I I love it, Stephanie. Well, thank you for sharing a little bit about the whole behavior design method, the fog behavior design method that deals with corporate startups, everything, but also all of us, individuals as

Helping People Do What They Want

Judy Oskam 3:26

well.

Stephanie Weldy 3:26

Yeah, it's really rewarding to. I've always thought, so Judy, my background is in the employee well-being space. I did employee wellness strategy for large group public sector employers, think university, county government, health department, and so on. I used to always think about our work and think, yeah, it's about keeping people healthy at work. And I say that in quotations. But really, what we're about is helping Judy be Judy. Judy gets to be Judy at work. Judy gets to be Judy when she goes home. Judy gets to be Judy in her community, to her neighbors, to her faith community, and so on. Yes, it's important how we perform at work, but when we honor that whole person, including in the work we do, we have such a better chance of Judy being a happy, thriving person in all those different domains. And for something about that really lights me up. It's always struck me since I was very early in my career, like that's the kind of work I want to do, the kind where the person can show up at work. Yeah, maybe they're living their passion, maybe they're not, maybe they're thriving at home, maybe they're not. But if they know that there's a program or a person or a resource that cares about them and helping them succeed in ways they care about, oh my gosh, I'm on a life mission to do more of that. That just sounds great to me.

Judy Oskam 4:57

Well, and and everything you're doing is helping them live a better life for themselves in all facets, right? And that's what behavior design can do.

Stephanie Weldy 5:07

Yeah, I mean, that's what made it so easy to work with Dr. Fogg because when I first heard Fog Maxim number one was help people do what they want to do. Yes, it's like no-brainer, right? And let let me give some variations of that. Yeah, it's like help your spouse do what they want to do, not what you want your spouse to do, but what they want to do. Help your kids do what they want to do, not what you want them to do or the sport you loved as a kid, no, what they want to do. My friend said her son got into skateboarding, and she's like, Oh, help me, Jesus. Like, yes, you know, skateboarding. She goes, We ordered a helmet, we ordered knee pads or elbow pads or wrist pads. And she's like, This was a kid who wouldn't even ride a bike three months ago, and now he wants a skateboard. You know, she's laughing. I'm like, Yeah, but what's worse? The parent who's like, You will not ride a skateboard, that is dangerous, or the parent who says, I want to help you do this, let's talk about what's going to keep you safe. Right. And she goes, Falling is part of skateboarding.

Judy Oskam 6:07

Like, it is, yeah.

Stephanie Weldy 6:09

Help them do, and that goes the same with employees. Now, of course, there are aspects to work that are very defined, but saying during an annual performance review or even during a meeting, how do I help you in a way that you really care about right now, Judy? Or as you look over your next six months of work, what helps you succeed in ways you care about growing or in ways you care about um growing your career and so on? How many people have stopped to ask other people that question? Yeah, it's pretty rare.

Judy Oskam 6:45

Yeah, it is pretty rare.

Stephanie Weldy 6:46

It is pretty so consider being somebody who's outstanding in a special way that that does help others, and that includes yourself, you know. How do I help myself do what I really want to do and love and care about? Whether that's a hobby that you do a little bit of or um something new you explore, like photography or videography, or things people tend to care about, but they sideline because life rolls at such a fast pace.

Judy Oskam 7:17

Well, and I I love the um that you brought up the leader, the manager, the supervisor, and what a supervisor or manager can do to help an employee. There is the basic job that we always have to do. We have to get the widgets moved on the track or whatever the job is or process the paperwork. But I think there are ways to do it that can help with uh by understanding what the employee wants, you know?

Stephanie Weldy 7:46

Yeah, yeah. And you know, this is maybe similar to the the difference between let's try this for two weeks and let's do this forever? It's like you could have a conversation that constrains that opportunity if you need to, like in the next month, what are things that are top of mind for you as you look ahead at your calendar, you know, or as you see of all the different, you know, I work with some sales trainers, and of all the different things you can do, which of these talk tracks is the best match for you, Judy? And so you're not guessing, you're helping them do what they want to do, even if it's a defined talk track. It's like it's one of these four scripts. We've worked really hard to define this. Which one's the best match for you? And the same thing is true in the wellness program. You know, it's um it's the walking challenge, it's the smoothie demos, it's the um flu on-site flu shots, it's the uh co ed softball league. Which one's the best match for you? You can't just assume or motivate people to do the one they don't want to do. That backfires, and it certainly doesn't earn you any extra goodwill in that relationship. And so I'd I mean, I'd love to think because I've had great mentors and past managers and current managers, like, hey, how do I help you do more of what you want to do in this role? And you could even come up with like a buffet of options, like these are the key ways our team needs to grow in this next six months. Which one is the best match for you? Let's talk about it. I love that.

Judy Oskam 9:21

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's great. Well, and again, some of the basic work, the the drudgery has to get done, but I bet there are ways that you can use behavior design to even make that a little more efficient as well, right?

Stephanie Weldy 9:38

Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure you can. Um, you know, it's it's hard to know without exactly understanding people's work contexts, but I like to think um that we as modern workers endure some things that we must do. Um, you know, we always want to have some feeling of contributing to a greater good. And then the stuff in between is like, hey, I, you know, having a type of work team where you can raise your hand and say, I'm really interested in that project. Can I take on that one with this person? Or you could even say, from my point of view, that really aligns with Stuart's strengths, but maybe I could help him once it became to this phase of the project, you know. And I think when it comes to how one thing that people seem really resistant to,

Make Behaviors Specific And Prompted

Stephanie Weldy 10:32

and I mentioned this as at the top of the conversation, is this idea of specific behaviors. By making the behavior really specific, you make it easier to do, it's certainly easier to understand, and you can more reliably prompt that behavior. So this comes back to the fog behavior model that says a behavior happens when there's motivation to do the behavior, there's the ability to do the behavior, and there's a prompt. And you can visualize it in two dimensions, and I can share some resources with your listeners. But the thought is that since no behavior happens without a prompt, you need to define the specific behavior. You want the person to have some level of motivation to do it, and then you need to make it as easy as possible and prompt that behavior, and then it's done reliably in the workplace. So even like the things you maybe don't love to do, you can, I want to say, get yourself to do them at least for a short short term or a set of them that serve towards that greater good that you do enjoy doing in the workplace.

Judy Oskam 11:39

And and it might be things like I'm thinking of some of the things we have to do and travel forms and things like that, purchase orders and things that are not fun, but maybe we save that till Friday morning uh of the song after a coffee or something. Maybe there's a way the environment plays a role, and then the prompt is you know, Friday of the song after I put down my coffee, I do two purchase orders or something. Exactly.

Stephanie Weldy 12:07

Yeah, I think that's really good thinking. I think we all have some things that are a little bit of like drudgery to our um work lives, and I guess you could kind of couple them with things you do enjoy, like, oh, I just refilled my water bottle and use my favorite hydration salts, or it's it's um of the song after lunch when my energy is a little bit low anyway. Maybe I'll um just do something that I I don't really like need a lot of brain power to do it. It's just kind of like I'll just get this process. So yeah, you can slot it in in a place that makes sense for you, or couple it with a time where you're like, oh, I'm very perky on Friday morning because I've had a special coffee and now I'm gonna get this task done.

Judy Oskam 12:45

And it's almost Saturday, so I'm excited. You know, weekend beckon. Well, I think some jobs that we hear, and and I I know people that are just burned out and they've been the job is not um exciting or it's not something, it's not it's a job, maybe not a career. So I think that's where behavior design can also be super helpful if if fact if if people are interested in doing something they want to do. That's the big challenge, maxim number one.

Stephanie Weldy 13:20

Yeah, that that's a hard, that's a hard scenario. I'm as I think about that. Um, you know, I think there are many factors playing in. You know, a lot of times when you are doing the type of job that is a means to an end, you might try to reframe it like this job helps me

Tackling Drudgery Without Dread

Stephanie Weldy 13:44

earn money to support my kids. This job helps me save up for college next semester. This job helps me put away some money in case of an emergency. You know, that I think you can maybe try to align that with something you really care about. That's what we would call like an enduring motivation. So my motivation to drink coffee is very high between 6 a.m. and maybe 10 a.m. And then it starts to wane throughout the day. Okay. But my motivation to be a responsive, great mom and parent, it's like pretty high at 6 a.m. And then it kind of stays steady throughout the day. If I have this call, for example, or this recording, I've I'm on due not disturb. So even if the call, if the school is calling, I'm not gonna get the call. I'm hoping they call my partner. Um, but like that motivation to be a great parent doesn't really wane. I mean, sometimes that it's like you said burnout, maybe it goes way down. I say, I need a weekend away with my girlfriends. We just did this last weekend. Oh, good for you. And I was like, do not do not text me about any coordination, do not tell my mom, you know, talk to my husband, do not call me, and I am not responsible for anything until I get home on Sunday night at five o'clock. Good for you. Make moving a mountain to make that happen. Yes. But I if you're burnout, you need to define what are the behaviors that help me repair, restore, relax. And some of that is, you know, work I don't fully understand, of course, but I think the pattern is the same. Is this it's like, what greater purpose is this role or job serving? And then what behaviors do I need to do to take care of myself? Because that that's another, you know, well, from my wellness world, it's like you've got to find ways to protect your own inner flame because we can't give a whole lot when we're totally, you know, out of energy and drained. So I really empathize with, and I've been there, and I just empathize really deeply to say, like, explore what could you do to protect your own inner flame? Explore what could you do, what help could you ask for? What how do you build your bench so that you have more support so that you can protect yourself from arriving at that place? But it is very real, and it's um you can certainly think about it a little bit more clearly by saying, what behaviors can I do that would help me recover, restore, relax a little bit in a very demanding setting, I'm sure.

Judy Oskam 16:24

And what behaviors do I need to accomplish to get X, Y, and Z done? I mean, what are the

Burnout, Purpose, And Self Repair

Judy Oskam 16:31

specific behaviors? No more, no less, but what will get it done? You know, performance, performance metric, maybe.

Stephanie Weldy 16:39

Exactly. And when we say behaviors, it turns out people have a really tough time thinking in that way. So behavior is a person doing an action in a given context or environment, okay? And if any one of those three things changes, it's a different behavior. Sure. So let me give you an example. Um, you know, in in regards to trying to think of the most relevant topic, let's go back to the seeing my friends objective because it's easy for us to conceptualize. Sure. You know, if you just say, Oh, keep in touch with my friends, are you talking about USPS snail mail? Are you talking about emails? Are you talking about texting? Are you talking about sending them a message on TikTok or Instagram? That's one way, those are ways to keep in touch. But, you know, um, sending a letter is a very different behavior than texting them an invite to come over on Thursday night, and so on. So as you think about specific behaviors, think who is doing what. So it's like Stephanie's texting April to get coffee, Judy's inviting her friends over on Thursday night at 8 p.m. for a fireside, and s'mores hang by the fire pit, right? Um, I think that helps you think more

The Movie Test For Real Behavior

Stephanie Weldy 17:55

clearly. So if you hear yourself say behaviors, one thing we don't we say is like think of a movie test. Could a director on a set could what are you seeing play on the screen? Oh, I love that. And if you can't see it play out, you know, Stephanie picks up her phone, Stephanie texts April, Stephanie hits send. It's a coffee emoji. Think of the details here, okay? Then it's not probably really a behavior, it's probably some version of that. Like Stephanie asks April to coffee. Well, is it via text? Is it the postal mail? You know, we're back to that problem. Everything, yes, exactly. Exactly.

Judy Oskam 18:36

So that's good. So if if you can't visualize it and this if it's not specific, right? Yeah, it has to be specific. Okay, that's good.

Stephanie Weldy 18:47

Yeah, sometimes we say simplicity changes behavior, and other times we say specificity changes behavior because it's really some combination of both of those. By making it more specific, you make it easier to do.

Judy Oskam 19:00

Exactly. It's it sounds so simple, but again, last question why is it so hard for us? Why is it so hard?

Stephanie Weldy 19:07

Oh my gosh, Judy, that's a hard final question. Why is it so hard? I think our lives are very full. It's so easy to just respond, like, oh, I'm so busy, you know, and or put something off until next time. We've we've tried and failed in the past, and most of us, it's not it's not that we're the failures, it's our approach to change that has failed us. And so we are much less likely to take on things when we feel like I've failed before, why would I do it again? So, in some regards, maybe that's why it's so hard. And then in other regards, I think we take on so much at once. Like we think, you know, to the New Year's resolution comment, like we think, I need to change my relationships, I need to change the tidings of my house, I need to change how much I exercise, I need to change how much money I make, or whatever the things are for you. And really, you're not gonna change any of that if you're trying to change all of it at once. You've got to hone in on what's the thing that moves me forward today in a meaningful way that I care about that helps me do what I already want to do. And you've got to start designing to feel successful fast. So, again, it's not the size of the new behavior, it's the frequency and that feeling of celebration, which you can learn more about in Tiny Habits, both the book and the free five-day program. But ultimately, it's changing your message to yourself that you're doing a good job, that you look in the mirror at night. Sometimes I do, and I'm like, oh, this day. But then I'll say, You did a good job. You showed up for your kids, you fulfilled your commitments at work. Sure, you didn't do everything perfectly, but like, look, you're the kind of person who's moving forward even on a tough day. And there is something transformative about that, where you just don't let the pat, you don't let the stuff in the rear view mirror define what's happening in the windshield. You are you're ever moving forward in some way that you care about. And so if it's been hard in the past, I get it. Try something new that you've learned and see what could be a match for you.

Judy Oskam 21:18

Thank you, Stephanie Weldy. Appreciate it.

Stephanie Weldy 21:20

So glad to talk with you, Judy, and share your work with the world as well. It's been a great conversation.

Your Next Small Step

Judy Oskam 21:27

What I'm taking from this conversation is a simple question. Can I picture the action? If you want to spend more time with friends, what would that look like this week? Maybe it's sending one person a text and inviting them for coffee, get specific. Or if you're supporting someone at work, it could start with a conversation about what they want to learn or do. Choose one thing that matters to you, and then make the next step specific and small enough to try. Then give yourself credit for doing it. I'm Judy Oskam Thanks so much for listening to Stories of Change, Helping You Navigate What's Next.